Yesterday's test day was not the first time that a Moffat has tested a DJR race car; while I expect that the seasoned veterans on this forum will roll their eyes and say "strewth Henry, everybody knows that!". perhaps the... ahem... more youthful among us would like to speculate on when, where, what car, and some of the background on how the first Moffat/DJR drive came about.
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Moffat and DJR
- Thread starter Henry
- Start date
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OK these young guys are taking too long to answer 
At the end of 1984 Allan Moffat and Mazda evaluated possible contenders for the upcoming Group A formula. To cut a long story short, nothing was suitable without Mazda Australia spending buckets of their own money, as opposed to the Mazda motorsport departments around the world developing something.
As a consequence, when it came to Bathurst in 1985, Allan Moffat was carless, and was employed with Channel 7 as a commentator. After negotiations with various teams, Channel 7 decided to put their high profile recruit to good use. They arranged for AM to test versions of the various makes for a video segment to be aired in the pre-race telecast. He drove Willmington's XJS Jag (TRW wouldn't participate), HDT's T-car, some others I can't remember, and DJR's spare No.18 Mustang. Dick and Larry Perkins were to share the NO.17 car and the spare was used for Larry to get in some practice. This was not a T-car as such but a full entry as No.18. Dick wanted another entry ready to race in case of a practice crash with 17. After 1983 he swore never to come to Bathurst with a sungle car entry. With AM still at the height of his powers, it was rumoured by the Ford hopeful that AM could be a last minute entry in the Great Race. Belgian Michel Delcourt was also in town with helmet in hand, and was rumoured to be a suitable co-driver for AM.
Given how fast the 1985 Mustang was, it was a shame it never happened. [^]
At the end of 1984 Allan Moffat and Mazda evaluated possible contenders for the upcoming Group A formula. To cut a long story short, nothing was suitable without Mazda Australia spending buckets of their own money, as opposed to the Mazda motorsport departments around the world developing something.
As a consequence, when it came to Bathurst in 1985, Allan Moffat was carless, and was employed with Channel 7 as a commentator. After negotiations with various teams, Channel 7 decided to put their high profile recruit to good use. They arranged for AM to test versions of the various makes for a video segment to be aired in the pre-race telecast. He drove Willmington's XJS Jag (TRW wouldn't participate), HDT's T-car, some others I can't remember, and DJR's spare No.18 Mustang. Dick and Larry Perkins were to share the NO.17 car and the spare was used for Larry to get in some practice. This was not a T-car as such but a full entry as No.18. Dick wanted another entry ready to race in case of a practice crash with 17. After 1983 he swore never to come to Bathurst with a sungle car entry. With AM still at the height of his powers, it was rumoured by the Ford hopeful that AM could be a last minute entry in the Great Race. Belgian Michel Delcourt was also in town with helmet in hand, and was rumoured to be a suitable co-driver for AM.
Given how fast the 1985 Mustang was, it was a shame it never happened. [^]
Truly. DJ had agreed to the idea, but LP vetoed it, citing an ineligible exhaust system... but probably his main objection was that it may have detracted from the effort on the 17 car. COuld be that it might've been advantageous to have a second car running on the day as it turned out, considering the events of the first half of the race...
One of the things I've often wondered was, given that AM picked up a drive with the HDT early in 1986, why didn't Brock approach Moffat for Bathurst in 1985? I was plucking up the courage to email "Ask Allan" last night with a couple of questions, but don't like to waste his time
One of the things I've often wondered was, given that AM picked up a drive with the HDT early in 1986, why didn't Brock approach Moffat for Bathurst in 1985? I was plucking up the courage to email "Ask Allan" last night with a couple of questions, but don't like to waste his time
quote:Originally posted by Beejay
OK these young guys are taking too long to answer
I'd say half of these young'uns wouldn't even know who Allan Moffat is Beejay, which is a bloody shame as he is one of the all time true legends of our sport & doesn't carry on with all the bull**** unlike a certain apparent Holden Legend. No comebacks, just straight down the line.
Given how fast the 1985 Mustang was, it was a shame it never happened. [^]
How true you are Beejay.
1994, the Cenovis Falcon (just about the best-looking of the EB's) used a DJR engine, and IIRC, A Gibson mMotor Sport gearbox...now here's a trivia question:
Who supplied the original engine for the #9 Cenovis EB Falcon, and what previous history existed between the engine builder and the owner of the car?
Who supplied the original engine for the #9 Cenovis EB Falcon, and what previous history existed between the engine builder and the owner of the car?
JB - AM's first EB engine in 1993 came from those US legends Holman-Moody, but sadly with a carburettor. In 1994 the funds went a bit further and he bought an engine off DJR with fuel injection.
Rob - Only a budget keeps AM out of V8s. I'm sure he'd dearly love to manage FPR [8D]
Henry - the impression that I get from interviews with AM is that I don't think either of them really considered that it was viable to work with each other. John Harvey bridged that gap. AM and Harvey became friends after Harvey dragged him out of the RX7 crash at Surfers in '84. After a year on the sidelines in '85 he told Harvey he was available. It was only when HDT was planning to go overseas for '86 that they needed AM's experience to share the increased workload that would come from running in Europe. When AM and Brock were in Europe, Harvey flew the HDT flag in Aussie events.
It was a win-win for everybody. AM did the lap after lap of testing in Europe sorting out the problems they had, while Brock did what he does best, drumming up support and pressing the flesh.
Rob - Only a budget keeps AM out of V8s. I'm sure he'd dearly love to manage FPR [8D]
Henry - the impression that I get from interviews with AM is that I don't think either of them really considered that it was viable to work with each other. John Harvey bridged that gap. AM and Harvey became friends after Harvey dragged him out of the RX7 crash at Surfers in '84. After a year on the sidelines in '85 he told Harvey he was available. It was only when HDT was planning to go overseas for '86 that they needed AM's experience to share the increased workload that would come from running in Europe. When AM and Brock were in Europe, Harvey flew the HDT flag in Aussie events.
It was a win-win for everybody. AM did the lap after lap of testing in Europe sorting out the problems they had, while Brock did what he does best, drumming up support and pressing the flesh.
The prior link to Holman-Moody came in the Trans Am Mustang days. Moffat got his running gear (engines, gearboxes, diffs) from them. In fact, if you go to the Holman-Moody website, you'll still find Allan listed as their Australian agent.
Holman-Moody is a story in itself.
Back in the late '50s Ford wanted to get involved in NASCAR and did it by supporting a couple of teams. But when the AMA agreement came to pull out, Ford needed to get rid of all the stock of gear. In stepped John Holman and Ralph Moody. They became the Ford distributors for racing gear and kept a Ford presence on the NASCAR tracks.
They started supplying Ford gear for all kinds of people who wanted it, and not just for NASCAR. When Ford decided to dump the AMA agreement in 1962, they pumped big bucks into Holman-Moody. H-M became a racing factory that ran race teams, and supplied all sorts of gear for NASCAR, sports cars, drag racing and even power boats. When Ford had a false start with the GT40 and then decided to base their Le Mans program development in the US, Shelby and H-M were chosen as Ford contractors to run the main GT40 teams.
The point is, in the '60s, if you had the right kind of letter from FoMoCo, you could walk in to the H-M warehouse and pick all the parts you needed right of the shelf. And those parts were pretty much the best you could get.
And there's the story! It's intriguing how so many of these US contacts crop up at varying intervals in Allan's career... Beejay, maybe we should pressure you into hassling Allan into writing his memoirs - there are so many stories from not only the greatest eras of Aussie touring car racing, but also from things like TRans-Am, the GT-40 era, Daytona... so much racing...
Yes please do hassle him about writing a book! I have been doing some prodding in puting together the website, but the answer has always been - "maybe, one day". My concern is that time dims the memory. Send emails to the website asking him to do a book to reveal the untold stories of his career.
Henry, you have expressed what has always got me excited about these missing details, that is, Allan Moffat has had close links to people such as:
Team Lotus
Jackie Stewart
Alan Mann Racing
Roy Lunn
Kar Kraft
Jacque Passino
Bud Moore
Holman-Moody
Goodyear
Lee Dykstra
Horst Kwech
Reudi Eggenberger
Ford Cologne
Dan Gurney
Mark Donohue
Dieter Glemser
Jacky Ickx
Mazda Japan
What kind of stories can you tell when you mix in that kind of company?
Henry, you have expressed what has always got me excited about these missing details, that is, Allan Moffat has had close links to people such as:
Team Lotus
Jackie Stewart
Alan Mann Racing
Roy Lunn
Kar Kraft
Jacque Passino
Bud Moore
Holman-Moody
Goodyear
Lee Dykstra
Horst Kwech
Reudi Eggenberger
Ford Cologne
Dan Gurney
Mark Donohue
Dieter Glemser
Jacky Ickx
Mazda Japan
What kind of stories can you tell when you mix in that kind of company?
Perhaps hinder wasn't the correct term - however the links he maintained did not seem to give him the edge on the rest of the field, as could have reasonably been expected given the experience from Nascar and V8 racing in genereal in the states at the time.
Can someone confirm who was the engine builder for Moffat's aborted 1980 Bathurst campaign?
Oh, and Beejay, its nice to see the site going from strength to strength - well done to you and Mitchell.
Can someone confirm who was the engine builder for Moffat's aborted 1980 Bathurst campaign?
Oh, and Beejay, its nice to see the site going from strength to strength - well done to you and Mitchell.
Doug
Actually the site has been a bit stagnant. We're looking at adding pieces where available.
Without looking at my stuff I'm pretty sure the 1980 engine came from Ivan Tighe, later to do work with DJR.
Possibly what you are alluding to is that the 1980 XD was built with help from Lee Dykstra, former Kar Kraft engineer and later Indycar engineer for Greg Moore. Again from memory, the deal was flung together in six weeks and the car built in three weeks. I think the issue there was one of privacy. Using Dykstra allowed Allan to keep things confidential. Once again, who knows what could have happened that weekend if they'd started a couple of months earlier.
However one of the things that we still see persisting today is the attitude that if it is Australian, there must be better available overseas. In 1974 Allan found that his Aussie engine builder was better than the U.S. talent on Clevelands. In 1988 DJR showed who builds the worlds best Sierras. In 2004 FPR showed that the poms should stick to four cylinders.
Actually the site has been a bit stagnant. We're looking at adding pieces where available.
Without looking at my stuff I'm pretty sure the 1980 engine came from Ivan Tighe, later to do work with DJR.
Possibly what you are alluding to is that the 1980 XD was built with help from Lee Dykstra, former Kar Kraft engineer and later Indycar engineer for Greg Moore. Again from memory, the deal was flung together in six weeks and the car built in three weeks. I think the issue there was one of privacy. Using Dykstra allowed Allan to keep things confidential. Once again, who knows what could have happened that weekend if they'd started a couple of months earlier.
However one of the things that we still see persisting today is the attitude that if it is Australian, there must be better available overseas. In 1974 Allan found that his Aussie engine builder was better than the U.S. talent on Clevelands. In 1988 DJR showed who builds the worlds best Sierras. In 2004 FPR showed that the poms should stick to four cylinders.
Goeff England had a lot to do with Moffats engines around that particular times. Geof could build a good drag engine but i have reservations about his engines for Moffat.
Geoff was a guest speaker at a meeting i went to once and he said a few things that i knew was incorrect regarding HP figures
Geoff was a guest speaker at a meeting i went to once and he said a few things that i knew was incorrect regarding HP figures