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better or worse drivers?

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DJRMAD

New member
Are the current crop of V8 Supercar drivers better or worse drivers than guys like Dick.
These days they are driving very high tech machines and to some degree perform like robots. I understand there is still an incredible amount of skill involved, but back in the day they really drove by the seat of their pants, sliding through every corner, using heaps of opposite lock, something im not sure todays drivers are familiar with!. They were highly skilled drivers with great finess.
Check out 1993 ATCC Lakeside Race 1
on utube and watch the master at work.
 

Poita

Administrator
Very hard to say, you learn to drive with the tools you have available at the time. It's a bit like saying are you better at mowing the lawn than your father because your lawn looks much better than you can remember your fathers ever looked. You work with what you have available at the time and obviously todays equipment is much better.

Most of todays drivers don't have day jobs, they spend a lot of time in a gym and drive the equipment they have available to them very well. There are a lot more talented drivers around today than there were back in Brock's and Dicks era. Any driver will only push himself and his equipment as much as they need to, I believe todays drivers have to do a lot more to earn a win, and yes they have much better equipment to do it with.
 

TOWIE

New member
Dick is a better driver, he drives with what he's got... Not a ml this way, a ml that way, gears that change by themselves ect... Not only this, he got out and fixed them when something went wrong...

Here's the challenge...

Dicks XE is back...

Steve does 3 laps, Dick does 3 laps...

The FG...

Steve does 3 laps, Dick does 3 laps...

Work out the difference in times... Steve will be quicker in the FG, but by how many seconds...

I'm betting Dick is quicker in the XE still & 30 years older... ;)

It'd never happen, but how friggin cool would it be???
 

Rob 18

New member
They had a similar comparison at the AGP a few years ago Towie with the Sierra & didn't Jnr put it into the wall. Then again, no one in the world could drive a Sierra as good as DJ. The man was on the top of his game in that era & I doubt with the possible exception of CL, no one one could handle one of those cars as good as the legends from that era!!
 

TS-50

New member
Back in the day it really was "seat of the pants" driving and it took both skill and "feel" to know how hard to push the car, how much to turn her in and how late to brake.

I think the modern era where it is all down on software and data entry programs to let the driver know what's going on is so vastly different to how it was back then that you really can't compare them.
 

Nascar12

New member
Agreed TS, then and now - its like chalk and cheese. The money that all the teams have now, the fact there are teams now, etc......
However if the question is would Dick have excelled in his 20's thru 50's in this day, well I reckon he still would be a star, but hard to say if it would have lasted as long these days. Across the driver/ team list now, there is far more class and skill than the drivers of the old days.

You have to ask would Murry Carter , Peter Janson and other drivers of that standard in those days could have they made it now - I don't think so.
 

TOWIE

New member
My point exactly... Chalk and cheese... Isn't that what the topic is about...

Measure the difference in time of one car to another... Put Dick in the FG & Jnr in the XE... Measure the difference and I bet Dicks slower lap in the FG than Jnr's is less than the other way round... This day & age against that old day...
 

Bigcol

Active member
With the way they gather data today it makes it easy for a driver to find out where he is going wrong. They can even tell him brake later get on the power earlier and to go harder through the turns because the car can generate more G's [drive]
Today the cars are near bullet proof. [sts] You don't have to nurse them home anymore. Todays driver with their petty antics would kill some one or themselves in an old school racer. [gcs] The level of protection they have today is massive.
Lowndes did laps in Bowdens GT40 and the #9 XYGT at QR. He damaged the gearbox in the GT40 and destroyed the brakes in the GT and KB still went faster [rt]. Todays driver don't have any mechanical sympathy. [smashpc]
Days gone by. The tyres were rooted after a handful of laps. The brakes smoking [smk] after a couple as well.
You can flat change a toploader but don't expect to last 1000km when you do.
You can't hold the thing on the rev limiter that you don't have on the start line and if you did you wouldn't get off the line because the diff or axles would be a twisted mess.
Now this is where todays drivers have no idea because all the younger guys and Skaife [jk] was included in that have had ways of collecting data all their careers.
Guys like Dick Brock and myself have gathered data through the seat of your pants, what you feel at your feet and your hands. [dance]
The good guys of yester year in their prime would have no problems matching and exceeding todays stars. [f]
I'm not sure you could say that about todays drivers if you put them in Sierras and group C Falcons let alone Moffats exploits in series production Falcon GTHO's.
Will never forget an article by Wheels one time and it was Brocks first drive of a GTHO around Bathurst.
He couldn't believe how fast it was and how much of a handful it was.
he went on to say that Moffat was a btter driver for the results he got from the GT's [y]
 

TS-50

New member
I have to agree with all that, [bc]

The guys who drove by the seat of the pants would probably adapt better to modern day cars than vice versa, in fact they'd probably enjoy the level of grip and response of the cars.

I think Dick proved that recently, when the Reindler brothers tested for DJR last year they both complained about the bumps and the difficulty in getting the car around the track and really blamed track conditions and setup being aimed at the DJR drivers being hard to come to terms with. Dick told them straight, that they were just slow, and actually put on a suit and helmet and blasted around the track, beating both their times, ( not quite up to the pace of Steve and Will though, but not that far away either)

I think the Reindler brothers got quite a surprise, and it shows that once a racer, always a racer.
 

Nascar12

New member
quote:Originally posted by TS-50

I have to agree with all that, [bc]

The guys who drove by the seat of the pants would probably adapt better to modern day cars than vice versa, in fact they'd probably enjoy the level of grip and response of the cars.

I think Dick proved that recently, when the Reindler brothers tested for DJR last year they both complained about the bumps and the difficulty in getting the car around the track and really blamed track conditions and setup being aimed at the DJR drivers being hard to come to terms with. Dick told them straight, that they were just slow, and actually put on a suit and helmet and blasted around the track, beating both their times, ( not quite up to the pace of Steve and Will though, but not that far away either)

I think the Reindler brothers got quite a surprise, and it shows that once a racer, always a racer.


How good would have that been to see ehhhh??
 

Henry

New member
Brings a smile to the dial... and to Dick's face when we talked to him before Christmas too...

Back in the days, drivers were forced to used more discretionary caution... and it's not just a touring car phenomenon. Ask yourself this: how much quicker would guys like Jackie Stewart or Jim Clark have been, had it not been almost certain that they would pay for a mere slip with their lives? Jackie Stewart lost 59 friends and colleagues during his ten years at the pinnacle of the sport - imagine that: 60-odd people that you have known or worked with in the last 10 years, killed by the same thing you do for a living... and wonder to yourself how long a guy like Schumacher would've lasted had he driven as he did, but thirty years earlier...

The Maestro, Juan Manuel Fangio, won his final GP at the Nurburgring in a stupendous drive from a lap down (at Nordschliefe!!! 21 miles?) where he drove savagely to haul in the Ferraris... he retired not long after, and allegedly said that his decision to retire came from the realisation of how intensely he had driven there, and the consequences of one mistake at the levels of commitment he had used...

Niki Lauda was the first man to break 7 minutes at the 'Ring, qualifying for the 1975 German Grand Prix, and his recollection was that he was in a "special" frame of mind, that he had "permitted" himself to drive so fast (his words, from To Hell And Back) in a manner in which he seldom did.

My point is that drivers in the day, certainly in most cases, kept a (miniscule) margin for error, where current-day drivers have the luxury of increased car and track safety which reduces their risk of injury considerably.

In the Series Proddie days, they'd set fuel mixture based on the colour of the pipe and condition of the plugs - a lot more painstaking and time-consuming that reading the value from a stochiometer and adjusting accordingly.

The really good current guys - the ones with good natural car control and feel - the Lowndeses and arguably Rick K, Junior, et al, would probably make a good fist of the old cars, once they adapted to babying them along. The others would probably be more inconsistent, in the manner of Bob Morris, whose distaste for slippery surfaces was well-noted.

Guys like DJ, whose career spanned a number of eras (given he won the first of his fice ATCC titles aged 36), had the luxury of experience across the full evolution, even into the present day.
 

TOWIE

New member
Have a look at Bathurst now... You'd be hard pressed to find a tree to hit... Concrete walls all the way around...
 

TS-50

New member
quote:Originally posted by Gerry

I think I'm with Rob 18 on this. As good as JB was, he still wasn't as good as dj.


yep, JB was good, easy on the car, kept a tidy line, was ultra hard to pass and made an Ideal partner to DJ who just drove the wheels off the car.:D
 

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