Car Troubles

[Mitchell]

Car has been taking longer than normal to start the last few days, and yesterday i tried to gun it up the hill and it wouldnt go anywhere.. just sorta putted up the street and every now and then would try to change gears and rev really high (its only Auto)

I managed to get home, and when i parked it the fuel pump was screaming..

Twice in the last month ive ran it on nearly no petrol for a day (no money)..

Ive just removed the fuel filter, and will dart up to the shop at 9.. but what are your first thoughts? clogged filter, and the pump screaming because its trying really hard to suck the petrol through... or the pumps rooted?


This is my first car, and im still learning... so please bare with me [help]

(as posted on fordforum )

 

[TS-50]

Mate, running the modern car out of fuel is one of the biggest NO NO's in motoring because if schitt from the bottom of the tank does block or even by-pass the filter it can also block injector nozzels causing symptoms that are pretty much like you've described.

The fact that your pump is going off may mean that there is some crap restricting suction at the tank or even a connecting hose that has been holed due to age or wear.( if I remember correctly the pump is outside the tank with a short hose either side before the hard stuff)

Please let us know how you go with the filter replacement, (it more than likely is just that).

 

[TS-50]

quote:Originally posted by TS-50

Mate, running the modern car out of fuel is one of the biggest NO NO's in motoring because if schitt from the bottom of the tank does block or even by-pass the filter it can also block injector nozzels causing symptoms that are pretty much like you've described.

The fact that your pump is going off may mean that there is some crap restricting suction at the tank or even a connecting hose that has been holed due to age or wear.( if I remember correctly the pump is outside the tank with a short hose either side before the hard stuff)

Please let us know how you go with the filter replacement, (it more than likely is just that).

edited to include BTW "bare" is actually Gettin' naked[crackup] of course you meant bear ( I just about split my side thinking about it )

 

[Mitchell]

filter made it better.. but didnt fix it...

should i just run some spitfire through?

im pulling the pump out to have a look now..

 

[Mitchell]

I pulled the pump out, Cleaned the sock thing, and ran some injector fluid through it...

The screaming stopped for a little while, and i drove for about 20mins with no problems... But when i parked it, and came back to it an hour later it had all started again..

ARGH!

 

[Mitchell]

reckon i should just buy a new pump from the wreckers, as im 99% sure that's what it is... Or should i just take it to the Mechanics in case it's something completely different.. ?

 

[TS-50]

Yrouble is these days the filter is metal, when they were clear plastic you could see if they were clogged, I've heard of cases where the new filter is blocked after a very short time because of dislodged crap in the tank.

I would re check the line and filter because sometimes a larger lump of algae can be sucked up and under pressure block the line considerably. I'd recheck the filter by removing it and shaking it out into a clan container ( you will see if ther is any larger lumps)then, while you have the pump off,and the filter, you could remove the fuel line up near the fuel rail and if you have a compressor blow it out (this could get messy so a good wad of rags around the open end might save you a big clean up ( if you have stamped or patterned concrete, petrol may ruin the finish).This may save you some coin, and you're going to have to remove the pump to replace it anyway so one more time won't matter.

BTW before you go to the wreckers for a pump, price a new one from Auto barn or whatever ( you may find its not that expensive)

 

[TS-50]

Yrouble is these days the filter is metal, when they were clear plastic you could see if they were clogged, I've heard of cases where the new filter is blocked after a very short time because of dislodged crap in the tank.

I would re check the line and filter because sometimes a larger lump of algae can be sucked up and under pressure block the line considerably. I'd recheck the filter by removing it and shaking it out into a clan container ( you will see if ther is any larger lumps)then, while you have the pump off,and the filter, you could remove the fuel line up near the fuel rail and if you have a compressor blow it out (this could get messy so a good wad of rags around the open end might save you a big clean up ( if you have stamped or patterned concrete, petrol may ruin the finish).This may save you some coin, and you're going to have to remove the pump to replace it anyway so one more time won't matter.

BTW before you go to the wreckers for a pump, price a new one from Auto barn or whatever ( you may find its not that expensive)

 

[Mitchell]

have got a compressor.. Will try that tomorrow..

The thing that's getting me is the noise coming from the pump.. would it whistle like that just because its trying really hard, or is that the noise it makes when its spinning but not doing anything..

The car works fine if i slowly bring it up to speed... it's when i really put my boot in to it that it wont go anywhere...

BLOODY THING! i felt ripped off today.. missed the first half of the race stuffin around with it..

pleasures of owning a 15 year old car, eh

 

[TS-50]

Yeah, it would (whistle like that) it's meant to be filled with fuel which both cools and Lubes it in operation, I think they run an oscilator and three diaphrams, but not sure.

If it has run long enough without fuel it could have over stretched a diaphram and split it, that will cause a loss of presure, . . . . .But if a change of filter and cleaning the pump coarse filter (sock thing) got it going ok for a short time, I'd check them again before spending money (coz I know you're doing it tough on apprentice wages, been there , done that can you believe 12.75 a week)

 

[TS-50]

If it's all clean, and you replace the pump and it's still the same, "electronic injector cleaning" is next.

They have mobile services, you're best to call direct, your mechanic will probabl use them and double the charge to you.

 

[Nascar12]

Not wanting to confuse the issue, but speaking of personal experiences of having an EB for 13 years, (I know, sad isn't it), similar symptoms were eventually put down to plug leads breaking down. If replacing the pump makes no diffeence to engine performance and if you've never changed the leads, consider them. Out of all the different ignition components eg plugs, cap, rotor button, coil, etc.... the leads on a Falcon seem to suffer from age and use overtime.

Sounds like the pump is possibily the the promlem if its noisy, it could be damaged from the effects from running on low tank level too often ie cavitating, and the internal clearances may have worn greater from where they should be. Replace the pump and if the pump is quiet but the engine is still gutless, consider the leads. If you have a multi meter as all good apprentice sparkies have, you can measure the resistance in the lead, don't ask me the spec, I just change 'em out!!
What did Ford Forums come up with?

 

[Nascar12]

quote:Originally posted by TS-50

(coz I know you're doing it tough on apprentice wages, been there , done that can you believe 12.75 a week)

$12.75 per week!! Faaark, what year was that in. In 1980, my first year packet was $66.90. I don't know how, but always had money to blow on my car.

 

[Mitchell]

taking it all out again is going to drive me crazy.. not to mention i made a serious mess of the nuts on either end of the filter, trying to get the bloody thing out..

So if the filter is clogged again, it means more than likely that the pump is fine.. and i need to do this electronic injector cleaning?

And the fuel line you speak of is just the line that goes in to the filter, yeah?

It's got just over a 1/4 of a tank now.. Should i go and fill it up before i try and run it again, or is a 1/4 enough?

Bloody thing passed an interstate rego check (blue slip) only a week ago.. i thought i was in the clear and everthing was sweet!

 

[Mitchell]

It's Shell's fault! it just dawned on me... The Shell servos down here havent had any V-Power for about 2 months, and on Friday they only had two Unleaded Pumps working at the whole station..

I reckon ive picked up, not dodgy fuel from the botton of my tank, but dodgy fuel from the bottom of theres..

Doesnt mean anything, i suppose... still have to get back out there and take the bloody thing apart again!

 

[Mitchell]

Well it did have shit in it again, but no clogs and nothing major... and When i blew out the lines it certainly was dirty... but again... nothing that i think would actually block it.. It was just fine dust, built up over 15 years, i'd say..

So it almost certainly is the pump.. I even went and put $45 worth of premium in it, and it achieved nothing...

It must be the pump. I hope its the pump.. please god say its only the pump!

thanks for all your help, too

 

[TS-50]

Nascar is right about leads, in the falcon there is a tendency to not change them (and the cap) but the symptoms of them breaking down usually show up as a small miss at idle and staling when you stop at lights etc to begin with, by the time they get to the point of causing no power under throttle you should be able to se christmas lights under the bonnet at night. BTW the voltage in an auto HT lead is quite considerable.

If you've got dodgy fuel, pull the line off at the filter and put it into a coke bottle (2lt) and turn on the ignition for a few seconds (the pump will either fill it or not ; if it's the pump) and then examine the bottle of fuel for seperation, seperation will mean water in the fuel and a filter full of water doesn't let much fuel past (because the membrane is oiled from the fule and water will find it hard to get through) Don't forget the water will be at the bottom of the fuel , you'll also be able to see any other crap in there.

Sorry mate you really have to do it again , to be sure.

 

[Mitchell]

I kinda did that..

Got two bottles... the first one caught the fuel that i blew out of the line, and it was pure black... the second bottle i pumped fuel in to, and it looked clean.. So i thought I'd fixed it, and the problem was in that line between the pump and the filter.. obviously not

So you're saying pump about a Litre in to a dry bottle, and see if theres' water in the fuel? if there is, the water will sit at the bottom?

Sorry if i'm giving you a headache I've always been mad on cars, and car racing, but never really had an opportunity to work on one myself... I'm kinda enjoying myself. I really appreciate the help. The guys over at Fordforums havent bothered to give me 1 reply.

Just got a pump quoted at Autobarn. $119. wreckers will give me one for $35, guaranteed that it will work.

Taking it out isnt so bad now, anyway.. when i took it back out again before it was much easier than the first time... mustve just been rusted in or something..

 

[TS-50]

Yeah pump it into a clear bottle, if you pump it into a bucket it can be hard to see water but in a clear bottle you'll see little bubbles at the bottom or even a layer of seperation if there is enough.

No headache, I've got two sons and, you have to learn or else have a thick wallet.

Sounds like a pump at $35 is ok if they guarentee it. I suppose the filter is 35 too,

Mate if the tank sample shows a lot of crap you're going to have to pull the filter and shake it out and if there is substantial crap in it then it's another one as well.

That rusted in or somthing will be locking compound (locktight) you seriously so not want those fittings coming loose,but be carefull not to over tighten.

I'm really disapinoted in people, who don't want to help like ford forums.

 

[Mitchell]

i used a clear bottle.. i might take one more sample and see how it looks.. im pretty sure that the stuff that came out of the line isnt enough to cause any major drama..

Ive had enough for today though.. not going to let it ruin race 2 as well

I'll let you know how i go tomorrow..