VE 2007 Racer

[Rob 18]

Holy crap, anyone have a copy of yesterdays MS News?? Has a detailed look at Holdens 2007 DTM Racer, [:I] oops.. I mean V8 Supercar [}].
Looks to me like the only part of the car that DID resemble anything Holden & that was the bodyshell, is not Holden anymore either.

Have a look at the backdoors, you'd find larger rear doors on an 85 Hilux Dual Cab ute & as for the roof chop, front bar & rear wing.... WTF is going on with this sport.

I know that when the series started in 93 the cars had to be a certain length & so on, but why on earth in 2006, can't they change the rules to suit a current size & spec car?? They'll be making them out of Carbon fibre next.

So it looks like next year we will have a car that runs a custom body on a race built chassis, running a Cheverolet engine, a Hollinger gearbox, Ford 9 inch diff, Ford front suspension & Ford rear suspension. The BF XR8 will almost look like a Taxi up against this thing!

Thank christ we have the best technicians & drivers on the blue side to even things up for 07!!

 

[Bigcol]

I think it's a massive mistake what they have done.
The VE should be permitted to run at it's full size and the wheel base rules changed to suit.
Whats going to happen with the new Falcon as it is rumoured to have a wheel base around the same size as the VE??
Are they going to change it then?
If they do it will make every VE chassis built obsolete

 

[Rob 18]

Why can't they run at their full size??? I know it's a parity formula but surely it wouldn't make that much difference!

 

[05]

Parity has brought everything into line but it is a pity that some of the Group C rules were not kept. Like on is the wheelbase and as bigcol says if the new Ford has the same wheelbase what is the problem?
I think the problem could be the front end on the VE being further to the front it is supposed to improve handling but I have no idea how much that would affect the V8 supercar over Fords?

 

[Car61]

A typical example of the 'law' always being (at least) 1 step behind the 'real world' !

I thought that the 'original' idea of V8 Supercars was that they were based on the actual 'road car' shell/outline & the 'rules' set accordingly? Even NASCAR is based on a 'silhouette' format!
If GMH builds a "Commode" road car that doesn't fit inside the dimensions of the existing 'rules' - HOW CAN IT BE HOMOLOGALATED FOR RACING ???

The article that Rob18 refers to indicates that the cut n shut of 93mm behind the B pillar (to fit into the wheelbase regs) is the least of the concerns.

Of more concern is the lower overall profile (than the road car - achieved by "taking out the sills so the body sits lower on the floorpan") PLUS - as the road car has a shortened front overhang they have extended the front spoiler/splitter "effectively moving all the heavy stuff (engine,gearbox, screen,bonnet,firewall etc) backwards - closer to the middle of the car giving better balance & an overall lower centre of gravity."

We can only hope that, as stated (by the '3 Ford Engineers' quoted) in the article: "As long as the same rules apply next year (when Ford are developing its 2008 racer)"

NB. other articles in MS News strongly suggest that both marques may be running the same rear spoiler on 2007 !!!
Plus a control disk rotor in 2007/08
Plus control calipers & pads to be phased in 08/09

SO:-
same car from the front bumper down,
same rear spoiler,
same gearbox,
same dif,
same suspension,
same brakes,
same wheels,
same tyres
That leaves only the donk + lights + badge to identify your favorite 'brand' !! (good luck spotting the different donk from the grandstand - or from your lounge)!

We may as well support 'Aussie Racers' at least you can spot the difference !!

 

[Joe5619]

It is getting a bit silly.. I had not idea they where changing the actually car as much has they have to go V8 supercar racing

 

[Rob 18]

Half of the Sports Sedans out there arn't as radical as this thing.

 

[Bigcol]

What do you expect!!!

Every thing that, that **** Walkinforshaw has anything to do with stinks of dodgey dealing and dodgy rule interpretations.
I'm not calling him a cheat but make your own mind up

 

[Car61]

I guess if you no longer need to stick to your 'road car' dimensions, you could make a Mitsu 380 or Toyota Aurion body fit into the 'blueprint'?? I wonder which will choose the Ford Motor & which will choose the Holden??

 

[Joe5619]

quote:Originally posted by bigcol

What do you expect!!!

Every thing that, that **** Walkinforshaw has anything to do with stinks of dodgey dealing and dodgy rule interpretations.
I'm not calling him a cheat but make your own mind up

The changes Holden have to make have NOTHING to do with Tom...

 

[TS-50]

Don't they, doesn't Kees Weel build the chassis'?

 

[Rob 18]

Not anymore TS. Kees sold Dencar back to HMS IIRC...

 

[TS-50]

IC, must have missed that , thanks Rob18

 

[Racin Jason]

Now that the cars no longer resemble anything like a road car, lets bring in Chrysler withe 300C. There is already a motor that can be easily adapted to suit V8SC running in NASCAR. The same could be said for Toyota. V8's seem to be getting more expensive so why don't we invite more dollars in via other manufacturers? I can't see any downside for the sport as a whole. The only ones that wouldn't like it are Ford and Holden . It's about time they woke up to themselves!

 

[Rob 18]

Nah, it's bull**** racing now RJ without having a pushrod Toyota runnin around. I'd rather go back to a more production based series with a BF GT with a quad cam 32 v engine, taking on the VE Clubby, The Chrysler 300c, WRX & whatever. As long as it's got 4 doors & is not a sports car (RX-7 GTR) it can compete.. They have to be slightly modified of course but you race what you sell!

 

[TS-50]

Yeah , we already have that , GT production,


the V8 series is about marketing, and Holden and Ford in this country will be in deep trouble if their respective sales get very much lower.
Imported and even Aussie built foreign cars are having a big impact on the sales of our local brands, which isn't their fault, for blame on that score you have to look back to Hawke , keating, and the John Button Car plan, which cut the obligatory content of Aussie made componants and allowed more and more imported cars here in an exchange deal so that we could continue to sell coal to asian countries at a price we are still contractually obligated to fullfilling today.
a bit off topic there but we actually need to support our local makers , or end up with none.

As a marketting tool V8 Supercars is a success story, the running of it however, sucks

the winner of two races in the round should win the round, regardless of the third race results, two out of three race wins should win the round.Points could be awarded for positions as they stand at the end of each round.
The driver who wins the most rounds at the end of the season should win the championship, if it's equal , a countback of race wins.
The accumulation of race points system is usually reserved for racing where there is only one race at each round.

 

[Rob 18]

quote:Originally posted by TS-50

Yeah , we already have that , GT production,


That's a great series to TS but I'd like to see a Croup C version (Without the flared guards & non standard bodykit). Back to the good old days!!

Just off topic here for a sec, does anybody know what engines the HOldens & Fords run in the NZ series??? Are they production based or old school like V8 Supercar & run older type engines????

 

[Car61]

Originally posted by Rob 18

Just off topic here for a sec, does anybody know what engines the HOldens & Fords run in the NZ series??? Are they production based or old school like V8 Supercar & run older type engines????


Rob - Sourced from "another forum"

Q. What sort of power do they run in NZV8?

A. There is a real war going on over here (NZ) with regard to engine parity.

The Falcon puts out around 415 bhp @ at the class's 6,4000 rev limit and develop's sum 390 ft lbs of torque @ 4,500 rpm.

The Ford engine is a 100% after market engine, based on the exact same Ford Motorsport block that is used in your Australian Supercars.

The Holden engine is almost a completely stock VN Commodore, unit with a Harrop manifold, controlled cam, and controlled carburator. The best Holden engines have 410 bhp @ 6,400 rpm, and develop 383 ft lbs of torque @ 3,900 rpm.

The problem is that whilst the BHP numbers are close, the torque difference's are magnified because the class uses a 4 speed controlled gearbox. By the time the Holden reaches 4,800 rpm, the Ford has 17 ft lbs more torque @ the flywheel, which is very significant when you multiply it by the fixed gear ratios in 2nd and 3rd.



Hope that helps !

db

 

[Rob 18]

Cheers 61!

So that means the Falcons are running the 302 Windsor & the Commies are running the 304/308 Holden block. Both are running carbies to I assume??

Seems to be a good competitive series over there!