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TS-50

New member
http://www.v8supercars.com.au/news/championship/buy-australian-made/?sf17445918=1



[h=1]Buy Australian made[/h]
  • 13 Hours ago
  • By Bruce Newton
  • V8 Supercars Championship



V8 Supercars is moving to clarify a rule in its operations manual to make it absolutely clear that chassis must only be built in Australia.
The rewrite means a DJR Penske investigation of whether it should exploit its parent’s robotic chassis building ability at its NASCAR operation in Mooresville, North Carolina.
“They (Penske) spoke about what they wanted to do, so we thought it best to clarify what the intent of the operations manual is,” explained V8 Supercars sporting and technical director David Stuart explained.
DJR Team Penske plans to roll out two new Ford Falcon FG Xs for the 2016 season, to ensure it can continue its chassis rotation even though it is expanding to a two driver team, with Fabian Coulthard joining Scott Pye.
DJR Team Penske will have Gold Coast-based Pace Innovations continue to build its chassis, with the first car now on the jig and scheduled to hit the track early next season.
“The motivator for us was not the propensity to build a super-chassis as it were, but to utilise Team Penske's resources to have cookie-cutter chassis punched out that are extremely cost effective,” explained DJR Team Penske managing director Ryan Story.
“With so much invested in the NASCAR and IndyCar programs in the United States, as you might appreciate, it made sense to explore consolidated economies of scale as those benefits may apply to the Australian racing team.
“That was a motivator and one of the key rationales for Team Penske entering the series, being able to utilise resources already at their disposal. For example, they have in their Mooresville facility an industrial robot which is used to build NASCAR chassis.”
This is the second time V8 Supercars has clarified an ‘internationl’ rule in relation to Penske. The first time came in 2013 when old Dick Johnson Racing was not allowed to ship a racer to the USA for testing.
Stuart said the intent of the rule had always been that race cars be built in Australia. He said the Penske clarification followed on from earlier questions along the same lines during the time the current NextGen chassis was being developed.
“With the advent of NextGen and the advent of new manufacturers, there were other manufacturers that had enquired in the course of that phase of development of that chassis as to whether they could build the cars overseas.
“And at that time they were told no by V8 Supercars.”
“So the intent - although not written into the Racing Entitlements Contract or a rule - is that the cars be built in Australia.”
Stuart explained there were a number of important reasons for having the cars built locally rather than overseas.
“The intellectual property (IP) for the NextGen chassis belongs to V8 Supercars. The IP of the control rear suspension belongs to V8 Supercars and is listed in the operations manual under design.
“So therefore we had some responsibility to look after that.
“Secondly, if the cars are being constructed in Australia it gives us the opportunity to go and inspect the cars… it gives us the opportunity to check the tubes for diameter and wall thickness, the construction method of the car, the gusseting, the quality of work, etcetera.”
Stuart said that ability to inspect the chassis under construction gave V8 Supercars the chance to address issues before they became major.
“It is always easier to fix something in its infancy than at completion.
“Once the cars are ready for paint we go and mark all the relevant tubes of the roll-cage so we can track it,” he added.
“And we will give the team a plate to affix to the roll cage once it is painted. We also now put a wire seal through that cage so we can track that cage through its life.”
Story admitted DJR Team Penske wasn’t happy with the clarification of the rule.
“It was flagged to us earlier this year that a rule change in 2016 would require chassis to be built in Australia,” he told v8supercars.com.au.
“Whilst we are disappointed, we respect the change and understand the reasoning behind it, being that it allows the Technical Department at V8 Supercars to oversee the build steps and tag the chassis through the build processes, something that would be difficult to police and manage with chassis made offshore.”
Stuart conceded the issue had exposed a need for V8 Supercars to continually review the operations manual.
“If somebody new is coming in and they don’t know what history and intent of a rule is then as we move forward we have to do a better job of clearly articulating in the rule book what the intent is and what the effect is,” he said.
 

Gerry

New member
What about the rest of the parts in the category that originated in other countries?
Then there's foreign ownership, foreign employees...
 

TS-50

New member
V8SC must be concerned about some kind of advantage being gained, and puts that ahead of safety IMHO

The reality is that after the two big accidents that wrote off both Mostert's and Pye's Falcons . . the construction and tube itself did not meet with the task intended and that raises questions about quality control, an issue which Penski's rig would almost certainly avoid.

My guess is the chassis builder has some agreement to provide chassis and doesn't want to lose the business.
 

Bigcol

Active member
Pace make up the chassis for teams if they don't want to or can't do it themselves.

888 do their own, same as Wankingforsure and PRA.

Penske's thingymejig takes a lot of guess work and human error out it.

Apparently it's welding process is spot on and takes out the human element
You would have to think that you'd end up with a better product.

This would be coming from the jerks that run V8supefarce.
Simple Simon McNamara, Dane and Walkinshaw.

Not sure how much this machine is worth but if it's that good you'd want one in this country building your own chassis and telling the others to jam it where the sun don't shine
 

djr18fan

New member
So djrtp are quoted as saying the primary reason they would look to build a chassis off shore is to save money, not to build a super chassis. And djrtp admit that building off shore would make it difficult for the category to monitor the build (quality control and meeting chassis rules). But somehow people read this and decide that a machine built chassis with few independent checks will be better?
I'm happy that djrtp has some restrictions on overseas assistance, because I fear the day will come when they will reach the top and this will be accompanied by complaints from the majority of fans that it is not fair that an overseas owned team with such big resources is whipping the locals. As has happened in the past.
 

TS-50

New member
So djrtp are quoted as saying the primary reason they would look to build a chassis off shore is to save money, not to build a super chassis. And djrtp admit that building off shore would make it difficult for the category to monitor the build (quality control and meeting chassis rules). But somehow people read this and decide that a machine built chassis with few independent checks will be better?
I'm happy that djrtp has some restrictions on overseas assistance, because I fear the day will come when they will reach the top and this will be accompanied by complaints from the majority of fans that it is not fair that an overseas owned team with such big resources is whipping the locals. As has happened in the past.


Seriously? That's how you interpret that part of the interview, If T888 said the same thing would you really expect that the chassis would be unimproved by the process of building on a state of the art robotic jig, no, . .you'd be saying they are building a super chassis. . .


My issue is with the two chassis that were written off and parts that should have been the absolute strongest because of length of part , triangulation and hardness due to proximity of welds, and in both cases drive safety was or could have been a serious issue because of it. The current builds do not certify that every inch of tube is absolutely spot on for integrity, thickness and freedom from imperfection, they are just cut from a length and welded. When you are seeing accidents with 19 gravity's in them and parts that should be the strongest of all the parts fail, questions need to be asked, if there is a better way, it should be on the table.

To be honest I'm sure Penski would be happy to be a chassis producer to the category if it came to that, and maybe that was a part of the reason, build the two OS , see how they go , and see if there is interest from other teams, . . just maybe the conspiracy's about who's fans are asking the question wouldn't matter.
 

Gerry

New member
Apparently it's ok for some teams to send whole cars overseas for "testing" but not ok for DJRTP to build a safer chassis overseas...
 

djr18fan

New member
Seriously? That's how you interpret that part of the interview, If T888 said the same thing would you really expect that the chassis would be unimproved by the process of building on a state of the art robotic jig, no, . .you'd be saying they are building a super chassis. . .

Yes that is how I interpret the words spoken by team DJRTP. Pretty clear words I reckon. And no, I am not one to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon and accuse T888 of lying if they said the same thing.

You'd think if the chassis might be safer that DJRTP would be very forthright in stating that as a reason to be permitted to build overseas. But they haven't said that anywhere I've seen. They say it's about money. And concede that they understand the category needs to be able to monitor the builds. How much clearer does it need to be?
 

TS-50

New member
Yes that is how I interpret the words spoken by team DJRTP. Pretty clear words I reckon. And no, I am not one to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon and accuse T888 of lying if they said the same thing.

You'd think if the chassis might be safer that DJRTP would be very forthright in stating that as a reason to be permitted to build overseas. But they haven't said that anywhere I've seen. They say it's about money. And concede that they understand the category needs to be able to monitor the builds. How much clearer does it need to be?

It is clear that for the purposes of this interview, they are saying what they have to say to suit those making the rules, that is all, and that the politics of the category are super important to get right especially in the media.
I suggest you get on down to Yatala, and have a look at Pye's written off car, see what should not be possible to see "(quality control and meeting chassis rules)" before accepting that the monitoring is anything more than a preferred contractor arrangement.
 

djr18fan

New member
It is not possible for me to get to the workshop to look at the car. So I go off what I read, and have a tendency to believe official statements from teams ahead of statements from other sources that may or may not be accurate.
If the team avoided mentioning build quality so as not to upset, they have erred by suggesting the chassis are too expensive to build in Australia.
I don't get this preferred chassis supplier thing. There are at least 3 chassis builders now and I am sure nothing is stopping djrtp building a chassis in Australia if they chose to. If safety is an unspoken concern, they should build the chassis themselves in Australia.
I'd say the main reason that officials want to monitor builds is to ensure corners are not cut in construction which could lead to embarrassing failures for the category
 

DJRMAD

New member
What a joke. So DJR team Penske want to contain their costs in building the proven overpriced car of the future, isnt that smart business?

Also the car would need to be inspected and scrutineered prior to racing anyway, so wheres the problem? Bet if Roland Dane had access to this type of thing it would have been ok
 

formularyan

The Other Boss
To be clear, and this was communicated to V8s as part of the discussion, we were happy to sell the chassis made overseas to whoever wanted to buy them.

All we want is a level playing field. We want the same opportunities as have been afforded to other teams over the years. We don't want an advantage, just a fair shot. To date, we haven't always had that.
 

TS-50

New member
To be clear, and this was communicated to V8s as part of the discussion, we were happy to sell the chassis made overseas to whoever wanted to buy them.

All we want is a level playing field. We want the same opportunities as have been afforded to other teams over the years. We don't want an advantage, just a fair shot. To date, we haven't always had that.


There does seem to be a trust issue at stake here as well, V8'S seem to trust T888 to build to insert the wire and to allow scrutiny when and if required at any stage of a chassis build, but are saying they do not trust a team that might do the chassis build overseas, despite the fact that the technology is proven, accurate and would be compliant especially if building customer cars.

It also looks like closed shop policy despite what our kiwi friend thinks because if the chassis were to prove to be substantially cheaper and of equal quality ( or better, subjectively ) a lot of teams struggling to make ends meet might just take advantage of that rather than pay through the nose.
Further I imagine if the customer chassis base grew to a large enough number the builds might just happen here in Australia, it might become a viable proposition.
 

Racin Jason

Active member
The whole COTF project was a debacle from the beginning. Too many people with vested interests looking to make a dollar for themselves rather than look at the long term health of the category. Now what we have is those that have been calling the shots behind the scenes for a number of years having their cages rattled by a new, powerful and better resourced organisation. The speed shown by Scott Pye and DJRTP in the latter part of 2015 wouldn't have helped either. If I were running DJRTP, I would be talking to Ford about running a couple of GT spec Mustangs.....Just in case.[sh]
 

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